Finally I was given the chance to write my thoughts on this matter when Alex Ferguson claimed
“Manchester City’s culture is about cash”.
I was finding it hard to express how money could be the primary factor in a club’s culture, but Ferguson just has that way with words doesn’t he?
I’m a Manchester United fan and I do agree with Alex Ferguson but please don’t stop reading – bear with me. Not only do I agree with his statement but I also feel that this is the same for most top-flight English teams – money is becoming their culture. It’s a subject I feel strongly about – the fight English clubs have to secure talent from South America and Europe has now been made much easier thanks to their financial supremacy.
The English Premier League now boasts an abundance of talent, attracting the world’s top players. For every Rooney there’s a Torres – for every Carragher there’s a Vidic and it is this compliment (or intrusion) of foreign talent that has enabled English clubs to rise back to the top – something our European counterparts can’t seem to accept. My question is why do they continue to object to the nature in which England have come to dominate European football?
After all, Spain and Italy have always had unrivalled access to the top talents in South America; Kaka and Messi are prime examples of this. The matter of fact is that English clubs never had a chance in signing these players as they were always going to be heading to the Mediterranean to ply their trade. With this in mind, and the national team’s demise, England had to find a way to compete.
A fine example of this is Ronaldinho. Close to signing for United, Barcelona came in at the last minute and sealed the Brazilian. Manchester United were in no worse position than Barcelona at the time, in fact probably a better team, but it was the culture of Barcelona and the previous connections with other Brazilians and South Americans that gave Barcelona the edge. Back home in Brazil, Barcelona are one of the teams that the players dream to play for; always have been, always will be. In addition the Barcelona culture (i.e. the nightlife) was right up Ronaldinho’s street. In comparison – a night out in Manchester? Maybe not so appealing.
England has not caught up culturally. London is a European hotspot and even it still struggles to attract top players – with many of the teams situated away from the capital the pull for these foreign players is even weaker.
Example one – Daniel Alves. Chelsea gave him the opportunity to play for one of the biggest clubs in the world, offering big money to Sevilla and big wages. Despite this Alves held out for a move to Barcelona, where despite a slow start he has fitted in very well – something he may have failed to do at Chelsea despite their cosmopolitan nature.
Money didn’t talk in January when Kaka refused to join Manchester City despite the embarrassing fee – again the heart spoke louder.
Is it then a matter of English clubs having to find another way to compete?
As I wrote about recently England have the monopoly on Europe’s top young talents. Signing the players at that crucial stage eradicates the culture of the county as they are ecstatic that they’re on the money they’re on. This is in turn means that players are coming over and staying and in ten years it’s going to be more normal for these foreigners to come over. By the time European clubs have corrected this law, English teams may already have their foot in the door.
Steven,
Good one. I only think that there are more reasons to it than the money for the choices of the great players.
They must consider playing time, I mean if Tevez decided to go to Madrid he would not be considered a unquestionable first team player, whereas in Manchester (or even on Arsenal) he is.
Another thing I heard from some brazilian players is the tax issue. In Spain particularly they can earn more because they pay less taxes to the governmet from the wages. Considering the amount they reportedly make the difference is always huge.
The climate can influence some South Americans to go to Spain or Italy, mainly because poor world knowledge. I mean Milan is as cold as London or Manchester but they do not know that.
Last but not least the dreams of becoming the new Ronaldo, Romario, Messi or Kaka have a great power over these youngsters who considers those great players all role models for their careers.
I know i digressed a little but I thougth all these elements are important to show that the English clubs have a lot more difficult to sing players than Spanish or Italian, and the money they have is just one factor on the whole deal.
Regards,
Fabricio
Posted by Fabricio | 23 July, 2009, 18:16Another factor I think is language. If you’re a kid coming over from South America, it’s going to be far easier to settle in a country where they speak the same (or similar) language to the country you have come from.
I think also, that the general view from outside our island is that British football is far more physical than what you might find elsewhere in Europe. This leads to less emphasis on skill and a greater risk of injuries from reckless tackles.
Posted by Geoff Edwards | 23 July, 2009, 22:07It’s true enough that there is too much money in English football, a situation that may not be sustainable given the current financial climate. I would say the culture of Chelsea, Manchester United and to a lesser extent Liverpool is money based as well. Other teams have to use their resources more intelligently.
It seems a little hypocritical of Alex Ferguson to criticize Man City’s spending power. This is a new phenomenon for the club, whereas their near neighbours have had similar if not greater power for 15 years or so. I dare say if you compare the spending of both clubs over the last 10 years City would be very very far behind.
You are right about the English clubs being unable to compete with the Spanish and Italian counterparts for South American talent. Perhaps we should look to Scandinavia and Eastern Europe as an alternative? One factor that hasn’t been mentioned is the work permit rules – meaning that only established internationals from non-EU countries can come to the UK.
It’s a good job that clubs like Arsenal, West Ham and Everton are doing there bit for football in the UK – all massive clubs that aren’t afraid to throw in untried youth players. Restoring some faith in the public that the game is about talent and not money. At the moment, England’s top 4 are having their moment in the sun, do you see that continuing? Or do you think that we are likely to see the balance of power shift once more? Do you think that the rest of the Premier League are as strong as the equivalent’s in Spain and Italy currently?
Posted by Steve Atkinson | 23 July, 2009, 23:08Gotta agree – lanaguage and weather are two massive factors. The thought of enduring a bad winter when you’ve not really seen one in your life before is probably an unecessary challenge on top of the transition to European life.
The work permit issue has, and will always be, an issue. But the top talents shouldn’t have a problem with this as they play for their national teams. I guess that’s why Wigan have been so successful with their purchases of South American stars – picking ones from the smaller countries.
The physical aspect – South American football is now adding a physical aspect to their game. Players such as Adriano, Fabiano and Melo are more than strong enough to handle their own in the Premiership. There is a worry that the skill of the game can be lost from Brazil to England – just look at Anderson for Manchester United, his game is very different to how people would have expected back in Brazil – a massive and potentially damaging transition for him.
As with Ferguson’s comment – I think he’s wrong to say what he has, but what he was getting is that there culture is now predominately built on money which may or may not fuel their success. You only have to think to yourself – what’s the first thing you think of when you think of Man City? For me it’s money I’m afraid – at the moment anyway.
I agree with the clubs giving youngster a chance and I’d add Villa and Man Utd to that list in terms of being a bit more flexible to add the odd youngster. I think why clubs don’t do it is because they can’t risk losing games by playing youngsters. I feel Chelsea and Liverpool both have some questions to be answered regarding the involvement of youth players both home grown and even foreign youngsters.
Posted by Steven Jones | 24 July, 2009, 07:44Ferguson has disgraced himself even further today I see. If Man City aren’t a big club why even talk about them? Idiotic logic I’m sure you’ll agree on his part.
When I think of City I think first, great club with even better fans. Sure money has come to them, but could that not just be football karma for loyalty. They have a culture as strong as any in the UK game before the 90s.
Can only think of a couple of academy graduates at Villa, same for Man U in their current squad. Don’t think they compare at all to be honest. You could put the same criticism at Man U and Villa actually, when they need a player, they go and buy just in the same way that City do. City do still have Johnson, Onuoha, Richards, Dunne and Ireland in their squad, and Hart is owned but on loan I believe
Posted by Steve Atkinson | 26 July, 2009, 13:51Not sure this is the correct place to lambast Ferguson over his comments – I was using them purely as a vehicle to write this column. I’m sure there is discussion elsewhere on the web where people would be happy to entertain the Ferguson comments though.
As with my comment per the youngster. I’m clearly stating that Villa and Man Utd have given chances to youngsters in the past and have been success whether or not they’ve come directly through their academy or not. You have to remember a lot of players Arsenal produce are also from other clubs as well. Walcott, Clichy, Fabregas all were bought but Wenger does have a lot to do with their progress as top footballers.
Anyway slightly off top (as per usual and not always a bad thing!). I was actually wondering if certain countries (and regions in those countries) in South America had prefered teams that people go to? I imagine most in Argentina wish to end up at Barca?
Posted by Steven Jones | 26 July, 2009, 17:27I’m not having a rant at Ferguson, just using it as a starting point to my reply. My point with regards to him is that nobody at City has said anything about it? It’s like he’s losing to himself with his mind games. On your original point, I think it’s harsh to label a club as having too much money, especially when the club that are making that slant have been the well-heeled ones for years outbidding others in the same league.
I hear what you’re saying about the youngsters, Man U gave a few bought youngsters a chance last season as did Villa. I think O’Neill has a policy of buying young English players a la Milner, Young et al, seems to be working to a degree but I think they are missing a cutting edge, someone with the ability to open defences up. Chelsea maybe haven’t recently played younger players, Mikel aside. Liverpool officially have the highest rated academy still, yet as you say they haven’t brought many through recently. They do have plenty of younger players though.
I read about an area in Brazil where people love Romario so much that a lot of the populous are Barca fans over there local team, anyone know where that is? Argentina is most likely split between different parts of Spain, Italy and France, seeing as the lion share of the population are first or second generation Argentinian. I think Higuain was born in France was he not?
Do you know which academies in Europe and South America are most prolific?
Posted by Steve Atkinson | 26 July, 2009, 19:57Steve and Steven, I think I can help with your doubts over Soth America. Pardon my English first if I make/made any mistake. I live in São Paulo, here and in Rio (and I here in other cities as well) Barça, Milan, Roma have youth academies and vacation camps, there they can recruit youngsters who dream of playing at those particular clubs because of their idols. Barça have a lot of supporters here, Romario was a great influence, but Rivaldo, Ronaldo (I am writing my first piece on him), and Gaúcho all were idols at Barça. You can see the case of Keirisson, a youngster that played for Coritiba last year, best scorer of the National Championship, he transferred to Palmeiras at the beggining of this year and in his contract he had a clause with a special fee (EUR 15 Millions) to transfer to Barça, he got his wishes and is on loan at Benfica. Argentinian clubs are struggling without money, they have a lot of fanatic supporters, so you cannot tell well which clubs are biggest. For me are Boca, River, Estudiantes, Velez and Independiente, but Racing and San Lorenzo are not far. Argentine players have a easy way into Spain because of the language, but also France, Italy and even Germany are common places for them because of the heavy immigration down here last century.
As for Brazil I imagine the biggest developers are São Paulo, Internacional, Fluminense, Palmeiras, Corinthians and Cruzeiro.
Fabricio
Posted by Fabricio | 28 July, 2009, 19:05Slightly off topic again, but I was interested in the point about Aston Villa. They illustrate the negative side of the ‘buy young and British’ policy. i.e. they have no cutting edge as you said. If you saw the final of the Euro U21 Championships (England lost 4-0 to Germany), I thought England were a carbon copy of Villa. The plan was just to get the ball to the wingers and get it in the box. There was no creativity in central midfield, just 3 workhorses. On the other hand, Germany had Mezut Ozil, who cut England open for fun from the centre of the park.
In terms of prolific youth academies in Europe, Barcelona is an obvious one, but another one is Sporting Lisbon. Recent products of the Lisbon academy include Cristiano Ronaldo, Nani, Joao Moutinho, Ricardo Quaresma, Hugo Viana and Simao. Not a bad production line.
Steve, you said Liverpool have officially the highest rated academy. Where did you get that info from, just out of curiosity?
Posted by Geoff Edwards | 29 July, 2009, 20:12There was an article in the Guardian I believe that compared the output of the academies so far as football league players are concerned. It also discussed the value of players produced, facilities and investment etc. I’m not sure which academy has produced the most players in the Premier League, but would be interested to know?
Sporting is a great shout, you can add Luis Figo to that list as well, one of my favourite players and a truly dangerous winger. Clairefontaine in Ile de France is a candidate as well with a frightening number of top players having been schooled there. Amazingly it is one of 6 or 7 regional academies in France. Makes England’s attempt at one equivalent look particularly small time.
I think some credit should go to Athletic Bilbao as well. They will only play persons from within the Basque area, meaning they have to invest heavily in their youth development. That they continue to play in La Liga and produce great players like Llorente and Yeste is testament to their system. Perhaps that is how English clubs should compete, start at grass roots and develop their own quality players?
What of the smaller leagues in Europe? Which clubs produce the best players in Eastern Europe or Scandinavia?
Posted by Steve Atkinson | 31 July, 2009, 20:00Mezut Ozil is quality by the way, Eden Hazard at Lille looks fantastic too from the little I’ve seen of him. That is definitely one area where England have been found wanting for years. In my opinion it is to do with the coaching, there is too much emphasis placed on winning at a young age, the players are afraid to make mistakes.
Posted by Steve Atkinson | 31 July, 2009, 20:03I think also there’s been an emphasis in England on physical aspects like strength and pace, rather than developing intelligent players. Maybe that will change in future as we have the likes of Arsene Wenger and Rafa Benitez bringing ideas from France and Spain. I read somewhere that a lot of Man Utd’s youth coaches are Brazilian.
I imagine the youth academies at the Belgrade clubs (Partizan and Red Star) are pretty prolific, as well as Dynamos Kiev and Zagreb. With regards to the Premier League, I think Middlesbrough a hell of a lot of good players at the moment.
Posted by Geoff Edwards | 2 August, 2009, 18:44Steve – one thing I noticed about Athletic Bilbao is that they’ve stretched the Basque area to include a wider zone and are known for stealing players off of Sociedad – still an incredible achievement in what they do, just something I’ve been reading about and a comment I heard on the World Football podcast a few weeks ago.
Posted by Steven Jones | 4 August, 2009, 23:04